Contempo Coding Podcast
Welcome to The Contempo Coding Podcast! 🎙️ Join us as we delve into the fascinating world of medical coding, sharing insightful stories and personal experiences of being a work-from-home mom. 🏠💪 Get ready to explore the industry, stay updated on changes, uncover hot tips, and gain valuable knowledge to empower your success in the dynamic field of medical coding. Tune in now and let's build your path to triumph together! 🌟💻
Contempo Coding Podcast
From Coding to Consulting: How Faith and Grit Built Keisha's Healthcare Business
Keisha Wilson, the inspiring founder and CEO of KW Advanced Consulting, sits down with us to share her extraordinary journey from the front desk of a mental health clinic to the helm of her own consulting firm. With over 20 years in healthcare, Keisha's story is one of transformation, where early ambitions in social work pivoted to a celebrated career in medical coding and compliance. Listen as she brings to life the importance of saying "yes" to new opportunities and embracing the roles that shaped her career, all while balancing the personal challenges of being a caregiver for her mother.
As Keisha recounts her transition from medical coding to compliance, she paints a vivid picture of her career progression and the leap into entrepreneurship. From hospital compliance departments to management roles, her path wasn't always easy, but it was peppered with valuable lessons in leadership, integrity, and financial planning. Hear how a friend's encouragement and her own passion led to the creation of her consulting business, showcasing the struggles and triumphs of building a company from the ground up. The insights into bootstrapping, leveraging artistic skills, and the critical support of family speak volumes about the resilience required to succeed.
We also navigate the evolving landscape of telehealth, thrust into rapid expansion by the COVID-19 pandemic, and the ensuing complexities of maintaining compliance. Keisha offers her expertise on the intricacies of HIPAA compliance, patient privacy, and the challenges of international telehealth practices. This episode doesn't stop there; it dives into the opportunities for minority and women business owners, highlighting the journey to becoming a certified Minority and Women-Owned Business Enterprise. Through networking and collaboration, Keisha demonstrates the potential for growth and success, proving that seizing every opportunity can open doors to unexpected ventures.
A podcast decoding young brains and behavior in a digital world.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to the channel. I'm here today with Keisha Wilson. Keisha is the founder and CEO of KW Advanced Consulting. She has over 20 years of experience in healthcare. She's held lots of key roles in teaching hospitals, ambulatory care, outpatient coding, cdi. She's been a compliance manager director, interim director I guess, right, interim director and a consultant and expert in compliance and revenue cycle management. She excels in risk-based audits, in multi-specialty coding, telehealth, hcc education. She has developed numerous compliance and coding training programs and serves as an instructor for KW Advanced Consulting and for the AAPC correct, yeah, yeah. So she serves on the board of directors for an outpatient mental health clinic, contributes to telehealth and compliance committees and has written for AAPC coding publications as well. So thank you so much for coming on the channel today and talking with us. Oh, you're welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I always watch, so I'm excited to be on and talk to your listeners today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so can you tell us a little bit about you know, going back through the 20 plus years of experience, how did you get your start in medical coding?
Speaker 2:Yes, so it's always. I always talk about my love for healthcare started in the front desk. So the same outpatient mental health clinic that I I always talk about, my love for health care, started in the front desk. So the same outpatient mental health clinic that I'm on the board now, 26 years later, I started at their front desk actually processing patients. So that's how my love of just health care started.
Speaker 2:And I was actually going to school to be a social worker and got into this whole master's program and decided to make a U-turn Because someone one day was like, have you ever heard about coding? And I was like, well, process patients, I do billing. And so she told me about it. Like the next week later I signed up for coding course and I decided not to go forth for the master's in social. Oh my God, I know A lot of people went into that. My mom was like what happened? But then I also had a union. You know I spoke to them about the different paths I wanted to go and they thought it was a great one as well.
Speaker 2:And at started going to school in person in a school in Queens. Oh, ok, yes, and that was great. And once I finished, it just so happened in the hospital I was in opened up a new multi-specialty coding department. So that's where the Good timing. Good timing, yeah. So I started coding for this hospital, a multi-specialty. Whatever new projects they had I always said yes to. So that's why I always tell people you know, don't just stick and get comfortable with one. Yeah, sometimes you got to get uncomfortable to learn other stuff. So I always said yes to every project.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's very important to not stop and go. Well, that's not my job, Because it's those things that aren't your job that are going to climb you up the career ladder.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and people are watching and sometimes you don't realize you'll get to love another specialty or even just understand it from a different perspective and down the line where it's going to come in. Speaking of where things are coming in, hey, future Victoria, here I'm editing this video and I just wanted to let you know that Keisha did mention to me after the interview and I thought this was worth noting that that front desk job that she had 26 years later asked her to sit on the board. So, truly, truly, truly, you don't know where things can wind up in the future. All right Back to you past Victoria, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's where the whole coding started, coming in from the multi-specialty there. But from the beginning, when I took coding courses, I knew I loved evaluation and management section, yeah, and I knew I wanted to work with E&M. So I'm like, how do I get to work with that? And there was I knew compliance. So that I researched like, how do I go into compliance, how long does it take, what certifications? And then that's how I started working towards the coding part and then the compliance part.
Speaker 1:So what compliance certifications do you have right?
Speaker 2:now I have the CPMA, and the most recent one was the CPCO. Okay, so for those that don't do coding or are new to all these acronyms, so it's a Certified Professional Medical Auditors one and then Certified Professional Compliance Officer one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think there's another organization that I've kind of seen growing a little bit in popularity with the HCCA. Yeah, the HCCA has been kind of growing in popularity. So I have to ask so you were going in for social work, you were pleading your master's have you gone back to school and been able to apply some of that to maybe something healthcare related, or are you like you know what? At this point it's not really needed.
Speaker 2:So debating, because I know healthcare administration is big, I think I just continued on the certification. So I definitely have my bachelor's and the certs in those areas. But still debating, I've been looking at programs all the time and I'm like do I have the bandwidth to just take it on right now, because in the process I know we'll get there. But in the last few years I was caregiving for my mom as well, so that kind of put a pause on just some things when it comes, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you have a very diverse background in health care compliance auditing. How did you get from your first coding role to now becoming a health care consultant? So good question.
Speaker 2:I know everyone's like big leaf. So it's so funny because I would say the path in health care total like I think I'm like two ways shy as a 30. So it started young and just like front desk and everything and everything piled up. And just like front desk and everything and everything piled up. But from the medical coding part I went into compliance. Once those three years or two years needed.
Speaker 2:I interviewed and I got it in and so it was a compliance department in a hospital and my role was the CDI. So it was a clinical documentation improvement or integrity, depending on where you work, what you call it. And they worked in. The area I was focused on was the ACO, the Accountable Care Organization. So they worked with HCC and risk adjustment. So that's where my CRC came in.
Speaker 2:So all my certifications I always tell everybody is intentional Wherever I'm working I want to specialize and get that. So the CRC was the next one because they were heavy and focused on that. But then I was in a dual role where I also helped with regular routine audit Okay, medicare audits like Target, pro and Educate, all those certs and racks Again, any project they needed help with. I was like, yes, I'll do it so with the ACO one part and then compliance in the next. But I always knew I wanted to do more management, so once the opportunity came about, I applied, and then I decided to go over into compliance as a compliance manager. Right, you're working in there, so you're educating.
Speaker 1:So the first manager position was that in a coding manager it was actually compliance manager.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you know when you're coming in you're training other managers, you're training staff, and I was doing that for a while. And then you know some people like, oh, don't go into management, it's a lot of work, but I always knew that you know you have these leadership qualities and you know you'll be good. So the first role was the compliance manager for a hospital and then, once the director left, it was an interim director from the compliance department. But all the while, while I was coding, I was always working part time as a consultant. So in the evening I would be going home for different companies and coding till like wee hours of the morning. So that's how you get your experience in other areas as well. So I always tell people you know, see what's out there, don't just stop one place. So that's how my love for consulting came about. And then so with the interim department that last position they decided to go a different direction with our department, and so I always knew I wanted to do this as a full time thing.
Speaker 2:I had a person, a friend, that said why don't you bet on yourself? So I said, ok, I'll put it on my vision board and I'm going to work towards it in the next three years. Yeah, so that was like december of 2021, I think, and june 2022. I created the llc and then the decision at this location uh, particular hospital was made and then so I always laugh and I'm like god, you have a sense of humor because, like I thought I had three years and he was like, well, you got two weeks. Um, so I created the business and so I worked on that like day and night, and that was the same time my mom was like diagnosed with cancer, so I was taking care of her while I'm in the chemo suite, I'm working on the business, working on it till like 3, 4 am. But I decided to take my friend's advice and bet on myself and sometimes other people seeing you what you don't necessarily see right away in yourself.
Speaker 1:So that's how the whole role from beginning to kind of started that's amazing and it's it's so much to take that leap of faith in yourself to, especially when it's it's um, going in like full in, like some people will kind of segue in. They'll go OK, I'm going to work full time here and part time there. But when you're taking that full leap and you're bootstrapping completely by yourself, you don't have any financial backing or capital or doing any of that. It's it's, it's. You have to have a lot of faith in yourself.
Speaker 2:A lot, a lot in myself, a lot in God and family, to support you on those days when you're not sure if this is the right decision, because I could have gone back to other organizations. You know when you work a certain way. That's why I always say, no matter where you leave, always leave in a way where people remember the work that you did and, if anything, they would want you back. And so there was a lot of people looking and say come here, um, but I knew this is what I wanted to do. There was a passion and love for compliance, but then being able to do it in your own way, right, um. And then you also have to do research. I looked at different hospitals, organizations. They're all sort of outsourcing. So why not become that source right, but one with integrity, like reputable source, right, right?
Speaker 1:so and I think that's one of the struggles when you're internal sometimes is the providers. They're like oh, we don't want to believe you, but we'll believe this person that we're going to pay more to do tell us the exact same thing. And you're like, okay, well, let me be that person who's going to get paid more to tell you the exact same thing Exactly, and it's never like Keisha said.
Speaker 2:It's always like, okay, I'm going to link these guidelines. So now you're going to listen to Keisha and CMF telling you this yeah, but it takes research. So I would say for anyone that's looking to take the leap, just know that, as Victoria mentioned, it does take a lot Finances. Yes, you have to cut corners in spending and you know you need backing from family, encouragement, and you're doing it all. Like I built the website Certain things I've never did for myself. I found myself or characters or skills that I had before that I forgot. Like I was an art major in high school, like all these things helped in creating content and certain things. It's not easy, but I love it. You know I wouldn't go back, and betting on yourself means that you're giving it a try. Worst comes to worst. If it doesn't work out, you have options because you have years of experience and all these certifications. But it only takes one time to kind of bet on yourself.
Speaker 1:The challenges that you face, though, working as yourself and being it sounds like that kind of solopreneur, because it's tough sometimes when you're the only person there to do the job.
Speaker 2:Yes, so I would say, until finances really starts rolling in or kicking in where you can pay others. Sometimes you're the one doing it all. Sometimes you're the one doing it all, so you're the one teaching, you're pitching, you're marketing web design, answering emails, appointments, looking at the books. You know that's not always easy, but there's sometimes there's interns that may come in, depending on some projects. I am able to like 1099. Yeah, depending on that area, but for a lot of it you, you are by yourself, so you have to know that. Keep going.
Speaker 2:I did get a business mentor, uh, so she encourages me and, you know, maybe give suggestions and in other areas where I'm not too sure, yeah, I think that's important to have one for business, but also have one in the industry that can guide you and say, yes, you are doing this right, continue, which I have both and that has been tremendous help. Also, I am big on structure, so my days are structured. What I look in certain areas, what I focus on, what I'm going to write about for the website for the year is laid out. I pivot if I need to.
Speaker 1:But there's a lot of things you can kind of predict coming like oh, october it's going to be ICD-10-CM update, it's January, you know, it's going to be CPT update. So there's some certain areas where you're like, ok, we can, we can plan this out well in advance.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and not being afraid to pivot right, I think, and I'm sure you've had. We know we have to pivot a lot sometimes. Um, but knowing you're not in this alone, but I would say like so a difficulty is knowing to navigate it and manage it all. Uh, not get overwhelmed, knowing when to take a break, and sometimes you forget and you have those reminding you like I need you to step away from the computer for a bit. But I think sometimes we're our worst enemy because you want to. You're not even proven to anyone. You've proven to yourself that you could do this. Yeah, so I think that's one of the struggles. And knowing when to shut down yeah, so I think that's one of the struggles. And knowing when to shut down, when to find time, and knowing if you mess up just to continue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you had mentioned before about telehealth and we've seen a lot of changes in telehealth over the years. You know the pandemic and then they're trying to pull back some of the things that they've had during the pandemic. Now I think we're trying to change codes or something a little bit with audio calls. How has all of this influx of telehealth impacted everything that's going on compliance-wise?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, so there's so much happening. So and it's funny because that's what I'm talking about here at HealthCon but those of you who know where we are, it's about telehealth in the United States versus internationally. So it has been big compliance-wise here in the United States as well as internationally too. It's been happening for a long time. I think with COVID we are now catching on to telehealth, but it's been around for a long time and I worked in the area with telehealth even before the pandemic, so, where organizations had to get grants because it wasn't necessarily covered, right, right, I remember those days. So they weren't covered, they had grants, and that's how we were able to see how it was being utilized.
Speaker 2:Then the pandemic came. Cms allowed for all these calls and waivers and we were able to do audio only when we weren't able to do that before, and so it relaxed a lot. But then there was a lot of stuff done in such a rushed way that we weren't able to really put certain process and procedures in place at the time. Right, patients need to be seen, elderly patients, patients with chronic conditions, and so we're just organizations are just flying left and right, let's get these patients seen, but now we're in a span in an area where we need to do so compliantly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so we know last year, august like once the public health emergency ended in May they gave us 90 days to get it together, to get our HIPAA compliant platform. That was the first thing, right, so that Facebook and all these different WhatsApp and stuff that we were using Signed business associate agreements and make sure because patients privacy is like the biggest thing yeah, and so now we're looking to train organizations from bedside manner to website manner, right, to make sure you're doing it compliantly, you're signing consents, permission is being given. Patients understand that it's a visit. That's virtually, but you're still. Co-payments. Deductibles still apply, right, cost sharing that went away when the public health emergency ended. So now compliance has a big area of making sure organizations are using the codes correctly, that they're billing, that if they're using time, time is documented, that we know that the platforms are HIPAA compliant, where they're being stored, are you recording, is consent being given, are you using the right codes and the right modifiers and that's been a big thing as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, One of my big concerns, I think with telehealth too, is continuity of care. We oftentimes will see the patient on the web and we're like, OK, follow up, but then where's our scheduler following up and scheduling that next appointment and we wind up losing off on these patients and then A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:So I think, getting organizations on board to get a workflow together as well, to exactly what you said make sure someone's following up on these visits or, if you see them and they need to come in a certain date, that we're still going back to those guidelines because now we know those seven days or as soon as possible, waivers were done away with or we're back to the CPT description. So we need to be careful with that. So here in the US and then even internationally, knowing those laws, like when it comes to the privacy, and if you're seeing a patient in another country, you have to understand the laws, rules, regulations when it comes to those countries. And those are what people don't understand. So even with like clients that I have that created international telehealth practice, they had to go to those countries and get certified, board certified there, like.
Speaker 2:So it's not just easy like people think it is. So there's a lot of legality to it when it comes to compliance. And we see, like the OIG have been looking at documentation, we always say if you get paid, that doesn't mean you get to keep the money Right. So people shouldn't get excited. You want to make sure. And when we look at records. We're like how do I know this is an in-person visit versus virtual? Sometimes you can't tell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and unless it's in there somewhere, there's really no way to tell yes, yeah, so this is why they need us to come in and say we need to update these templates.
Speaker 2:Time is not there. What platform did you use Right? Is this provider still allowed to use it? And then, is the insurance covering it? Yeah, a lot of them are not covering certain visits.
Speaker 1:And it's frustrating because they're genuinely doing very excellent work. But we need it all ducks in a row and documented appropriately, exactly. So, keeping up with all of the changes in telehealth and having to maintain all of those different credentials that you have in compliance and auditing, how do you stay current with all of these changes that are going on?
Speaker 2:stay current with all of these changes that are going on. So I'm laughing because, um, here I had a dinner with a young lady last night and she's like I've had you, um, I've spoken for the chapter a few times, you know we talk and she's like, how? Like, how do you, when do you sleep? Like, what does your day look like? Like what do you listen to? Because I find like you just fill up so much knowledge and I feel like my brain doesn't turn off. But having all these certifications and not even the certifications, but staying so relevant with what's going on, you constantly have to read, be on webinars, researching, research is I always say that I change that to my middle name depending on the day of the week you talk to me. It's so much research that we have to do so I'm always researching. I signed up to all the newsletters, whether it's CMS, newsroom, oig, like all of those. I'm on there, I'm listening to multiple webinars a day, reading the final rule. Those 2000 pages are a lot, lot, but to really understand it we have to guidelines. But again, this is something I love and I'm passionate about. So I'm going to take the time, um, even though there's only but so much times of the day.
Speaker 2:I block out certain times of the day or weekends to make sure I'm reading and updating, and so, even though telehealth still, things are still changing even now. So down here when I got here, I'm reading it to make sure. Do I need to say anything else when I'm presenting? That just came up last week and I think that's the biggest thing. You just have to stay abreast of the changes in order to continue to provide guidance, and I think that's what will set you apart. Or even when you're looking for new clients, right, they're going to want to know what sets you apart from this consultant. All right, what makes you a little different, different, and they test your knowledge too, and you have to know. So, in order to give guidance, whether you're in compliance coding, you have to stay abreast of the changes.
Speaker 1:So running a consultant business, staying up with all those changes, teaching, being a speaker at chapter events, a national speaker, that's got to be a lot of work. So how do you maintain that work-life balance and what helps kind of keep you motivated?
Speaker 2:So I am trying my best. I would say I don't know if I'm doing that great in that area, but I realize it's one that's a work in progress. I would say you realize that life is not forever, so you do have to make the best of it. I think, with my mom getting sick and now she, uh, healed I've. You know, she was my patient. I was a nurse to nurse.
Speaker 2:Um, that showed me something also, and while you sit there in those waiting rooms and you see how much people it's packed with patients and they're not sure if they're going to see tomorrow, it gives you a different mindset with how valuable life is. And so, although you have something to prove to yourself, you're like tomorrow is not promised. I really need to take time for today. So I try to find, like you know, in the morning I'll wake up, I'll pray, I'll read my bible, I'll take a walk I like to walk and jog and I'll wake up, I'll pray, I'll read my Bible, I'll take a walk, I like to walk and jog and I'll take that minute. Then I'll start the meeting, my day teach. If I can take one more walk before I teach, I try to do that. And then family Like, hey, keisha, you've been going for a few weeks, you need to take a break and trying to find things that I love to do, like art, again run, you know water, different stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But you have to be intentional or you're gonna not do it, yeah, so what kind of hobbies do you? You mentioned like art, do you?
Speaker 2:do like painting, drawing, so I actually do paintings and drawings and my sister bought me the whole canvas set again and oil paintings and water paint, so I've been painting. I think I gifted most of my friends at least one artwork Okay, so it's real therapeutic and it helps. And then designing like the stuff for, I guess, the business right now I get to do it on like him and put that back together. I love music. My mom used to be a dance teacher so I love dance. So you know, sometimes in the house I'll just put on something and just dance to help. Riding, bike Walking Prospect Park is in Brooklyn so that's one of my favorites to go to. I just sit by the water.
Speaker 1:I've been trying to get back into biking, but this is such a silly thing I don't remember how to ride a bike anymore, because I ride, so much.
Speaker 1:I haven't ridden a bike since I was a kid and then a while ago I hopped on a bike and I just kept falling over and I'm like, is it my balance? Like what's going on? So I'm like, maybe if I just get one of those like I just, you know, just get one that has three wheels and just get, for now Doesn't matter, like just to get back in the hang of it right.
Speaker 2:It's such a good feeling. Yeah, yeah, you should, I definitely should.
Speaker 1:um. So what is your advice to the aspiring coders, the ones that are looking at it? Because it's it's like I feel somewhat that is the cool thing to do now that we have so many of these newbie coders that they're like, oh my god, I want to run my own business and do my own thing and that's a that's a hearty aspiration. But sometimes I think it looks so sensational on social media that you're like, oh, this is so great. They just see the good side of it and it's like they don't see the years of tears and hard work and grit and taking on those additional projects that no one else wanted to, that that goes into that yes.
Speaker 2:So I would say, um one, never compare yourself to anyone else. Your journey is completely different, uh, to anyone else's. I tell students that, and just anyone when I'm speaking. You want to look at yourself and write your goals and aspirations down. I'm big on vision boards and that helps me. I like to write the vision and then see it come forth.
Speaker 2:Know that it's never easy, like it takes a lot of research. You really have to lay it out in the thought process. Everyone sees, like you said, the front part of it, but they never see the back end. The late nights, up till 3, 4 am, you're looking at your account. You're like can I do this, um, applying for certain things? Do you have the skill sets? If you don't, are you not able to hire anyone right now? Can, can you really do it yourself? Are you willing to go out there and put yourself out, because I, besides on the computer, I drive around in New York and I have stuff printed and I'll go into organizations at hospital and I'll leave my information talk to their leadership, because not everyone that makes decisions is behind the computer. Yeah, yeah. So you have to be willing to go out there and take that step and know that it's not easy, but there's so much to do in coding. There's so much avenues. You could say yes down the line, I want to do this for myself, but you really have to take some business classes. See what does it take to run a business. Get a business mentor. I had got one through school. I'm not publishing anyone, but you know there's so many business mentors. There's mentorship with AAPC and other people. Just talk to someone and get guidance and see what it is and see if this is something you want to do now or you want to wait.
Speaker 2:But while you're coding, get in anywhere. Just start, whether it's front desk, whether it's billing. I always say it may not be the job you want now, but you have to look at the bigger picture. I think in the hospital, when I started, I was a secretary and I took a huge pay cut to start coding. But I knew the long-term goal and sometimes you have to remember the long-term goal and sometimes you have to remember the long-term goal and know that this is not it for the time. And yes, you see all of us with a lot of certifications. But everyone you talk to I'm sure they're going to tell you they were intentional. So don't just get certifications to get them, but be intentional about the area you're working, where you want to go get experience in there as well, because that's going to set you apart from others.
Speaker 1:I love that. So, keisha, thank you so much for spending time with us today. Where can my viewers find you if they want to find you online?
Speaker 2:Yes, so I am everywhere where you guys are. So I'm on LinkedIn. I'm Keisha Wilson, our KW Advanced Consultant. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm Keisha Wilson, our KW Advanced Consultant. I'm on YouTube as well. That is as big as Victoria, but I'm there with some compliance stuff. Instagram, facebook, what's that? Threads, threads yeah. Then I'm usually posting regularly on all. Linkedin is a lot of more. The post is a little longer because that's where our target Find out where your target audience is as well. And then my website, kwadvanceconsultantcom, and I forgot to mention that. So the business became MWBE, certified, signed Minority Women on Business I love that, yes. Oneity Women on Business Love that, yes.
Speaker 2:One of the business reached a year last year. I made sure I applied, because you have to be in business a year before you apply, okay, and I said how do you get to work in the hospitals? And you had to be a vendor, a certified vendor. Once that year hit, I applied and I got approved. So that's another thing. You want to look, see what's out there, what opportunity there is for a business owner, small business owner, women business owner, minority yeah, and then that helps as well. I forgot to mention that part.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you never know where things will take you, and you got to take every opportunity that, especially the low hanging fruit ones, right?
Speaker 2:And know that you can do it alone. Yeah, collaboration is great, you know, meeting people at conferences and um, or just sliding in someone's dm on social media and just introducing yourself, like you never know, uh, where they'll take you. You never know who you sit next to yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh well, this has been a treat. Thank you so much for taking the time with us today. Thank you for having me. This is great.