Contempo Coding Podcast
Career Tips and Trends in Medical Coding: A Chat with Angelika Bodie
In this podcast, I talk with Angelika Bodie, a seasoned medical auditor and AAPC-approved instructor. With over eight years of experience, Angelika shares her journey from a local call center to her current role as an auditor for Norwood. We discuss the critical skills needed to thrive in diverse industries, the importance of mentorship and education in medical coding, and practical advice for newcomers facing the job market. This video is packed with tips on career planning, staying adaptable, and the evolving standards in medical documentation. Don't miss out on this invaluable conversation for anyone looking to succeed in healthcare coding and auditing!
In this podcast, I talk with Angelika Bodie, a seasoned medical auditor and AAPC-approved instructor. With over eight years of experience, Angelika shares her journey from a local call center to her current role as an auditor for Norwood. We discuss the critical skills needed to thrive in diverse industries, the importance of mentorship and education in medical coding, and practical advice for newcomers facing the job market. This video is packed with tips on career planning, staying adaptable, and the evolving standards in medical documentation. Don't miss out on this invaluable conversation for anyone looking to succeed in healthcare coding and auditing!
It's time for the Contempo Coding Podcast Discussions knowledge and insight to help you succeed in the medical coding industry.
Speaker 2:And now here's your host, victoria. Hey, everyone, welcome back to the channel. Today I am here with Angelica Bode. Angelica is an accomplished medical auditor and an AEPC-approved instructor with over eight years of experience in healthcare coding and risk adjustment auditing. Her career began handling claims and benefit inquiries at a local call center, which sparked her interest in healthcare. She pursued medical billing and coding, earning multiple certifications, including the COC and the CPCD, which is the dermatology certification, and the CPCD, which is the dermatology certification. Her roles have spanned various healthcare settings where she has significantly contributed to refining coding practices and revenue cycle management. Today, angelica works as a risk adjustment and profi auditor for Norwood, so she leverages her extensive experience to ensure compliance and accuracy in medical documentation and, as a former AAPC chapter president and an active contract contributor to AAPC's curriculum and practical projects, she remains deeply committed to mentoring and enhancing educational standards in the medical coding field. Thank you, angelica, for coming on today.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me. Yeah, when you say everything like that, I definitely it sounds like I do all the things and I feel like I do all the things.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes we're so hard on ourselves it's like, oh, I don't do that much. And then when someone realizes it back to you you're like, oh actually, yeah, no, then you mentioned it, yeah. So, Angelica, you've had a pretty diverse journey through different sectors before you kind of landed into medical coding and auditing. Can you share how some of those early experiences helped shape your approach as a medical auditor?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I worked in just very vast different industries. I started out cashiering and then moved into call center work and then moved into dispatching for a taxi cab company and then I was working as an operations manager for a medical courier specimen company and then I was doing reservations for enterprise rent-a-car and then I hopped over to billing. So I mean completely different industries for sure. So I don't know. I think it's easier for me because I have that experience in learning something completely different multiple times and then going into auditing. And when you work with a consulting group and you're auditing for multiple clients, they have a lot of different client guidelines that you have to learn and you just pivot between client and client. So maybe because I have that experience with not just staying in one industry my whole time I've been employed, maybe it's been easier for me to be able to pivot and pick up things that are new, quicker, easier than most. I don't know. That's my best guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm assuming you've probably worked with a lot of different systems and all of them. Is there anything that you found kind of like similar with going through, like working at a taxi scheduling service?
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, similar yeah With dispatching.
Speaker 2:Or has everything been like kind of like just all over the place? I always wonder if, like the way that people are treated outside of the patient spectrum, like we treat customers in the same way that we treat patients like registering them. I don't know. We treat customers in the same way that we treat patients like you are registering them.
Speaker 1:I don't know I just it's well, you do have to have a sense of customer service, especially if you're working in like the billing part of this industry. So when I was, when I started out working in billing, I was also doing. I was cross trained. So I was doing billing. So aging, I was doing authorizations, payment posting. I was also doing patient counseling. So I was counseling patients on financials. So how much the procedures were going to cost at ASC and options to make those payments, things like that. So customer service really kicked it there for me.
Speaker 2:So you were working on the provider end of that, like for the healthcare organizations, so you could probably then just look up the fee schedule there. It wasn't like you were having to advise them as someone working outside of that spectrum and you're like, well, we think that this x-ray is going to cost.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I understood exactly. You know the billing proponent and what the patient's responsibility was and why it became that way. I could look at the codes and calculate that on my own without being, I guess, another party coming in and having to ask someone for billing that, yeah, so, yeah, I covered all the spectrum.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's awesome. So you are pretty passionate about advocating for new students and coders in the industry. Can you elaborate why that is so crucial and what you're personally kind of doing to support those newcomers?
Speaker 1:It is so important. We were all in that position at one point. We were all new coming in to this industry and you really have to be resourceful. You don't have everything handed to you when you come in. There's a lot of information that is misleading, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:I don't know what the algorithm has it out for me for, but recently I've been seeing a lot of advertisements on like Facebook and LinkedIn and sponsored advertisements for join this billing and coding program and you can come out of it, you know, immediately hired and making $80,000 a year and you can work at home and take care of the kids, and there's always a picture of a young woman with a young child. Yeah, so I feel like you definitely have a lot of preying, predatory education institutions that are preying on parents with young children, and for us it's common sense that you can't work at home and take care of your kids at the same time. You have to be able to devote 100% to one or the other. You can't really split your attention between the two, yeah, but when they're being told in advertisement you can do this, they come in with those expectations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I actually have people that I know in my social circles that have gone through some of these. You know you used to open the magazine, oh, you can become a billing and coding specialist in six months and you're going to make this money and you don't have to pay for daycare, and they fell into it. And then they, they were shocked when they finished and they're like, oh wait, you mean, I can't just work from home while I'm watching my kids and then never wound up working in the industry because of it. They ended up because they didn't have those expect.
Speaker 1:They didn't understand the expectation, right yeah, they end up leaving, they get you know disgruntled and they feel like they wasted their time and their money and a lot of these courses they can you have to take a loan for sometimes and you get those and we have that.
Speaker 2:But then we also have some of the even the reputable technical schools and business schools that have people that are recruiting and just don't understand yes, because they don't understand the industry. And they're like yeah, I read on my pamphlet that it says here you can work from home and make this much money. And that's just what they relate to students, because they don't have any basis from comparison, because they don't work in the industry. They just work in education and in higher education, and they don't. They don't know that ins and outs of our actual industry Exactly.
Speaker 1:And we have a few technical colleges that really don't understand the credentialing part of it and that you really. I mean in the industry. Our standards are either a HEMA or APC and a lot of them have, I guess, maybe contracted the education curriculum with other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I'm sure there's some sort of partnership that they have that they go. We'll give you this certification and your students will give you a discounted fee, and then you can include it in your student package and get it for free.
Speaker 1:And then when they put I have this certification on my resume, and why am I not finding work? No one knows what that certification is.
Speaker 2:It's like that's great, that demonstrates proficiency, and I'm sure it's a wonderful organization, but the employers aren't really looking for it. There's a couple of sections I've seen, like little regional areas, where they're like oh yeah, we'll take this, but overall, aapc, ahima, right, exactly. So yeah, of course, when the newcomers come in and then they find out about the standards that we have, the second problem they have usually is I can't catch up. Yeah, so what tips do you have for our freshman year of coders that are coming in on kind of their strategic career planning?
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, okay, so it is. Yeah, we all know it's the. I can't find a job because I don't have experience and they won't give me experience to get the job Right. So you really have to be resourceful. This is a buzzword of mine that I've used forever is you have to be resourceful. And if you're not a resourceful type person, identify someone who is and watch them, see what they're doing.
Speaker 1:I think that if you don't have a plan in place or you don't know how to plan or make those next goals to advance your career, go to LinkedIn and look at those who you identify as I want to be in their position in five years or 10 years, yeah, and follow them. Yeah, reverse engineer the process, see how they got that Exactly. And you have to. You have to invest in yourself, because you're not going to be your employer you know when you do get on may not invest in you and you really have to to be able to invest in yourself to make sure that you put yourself up in that position to where you want to be, and that you don't find yourself being stagnant or stuck because you can't move forward career.
Speaker 2:You've had a strong ability to adapt and thrive in all of these different, various roles. It sounds like you really just kind of take things head on. What strategies have you found most effective from transitioning successfully between all these different roles in and out of healthcare?
Speaker 1:You really have to be teachable. You will stall yourself your career if you are not teachable, even if it's a lateral. So if you're taking on a new position or with a new company, you usually are going to have a couple of weeks notice in advance of what you're going to be with the company you're working for the specialty you might be coding for. So take the time and educate yourself so that you're not coming in as a complete blank slate and ask questions. There's no such thing as a stupid question. The stupid questions are the ones that are not asked. It's dumb to not ask the questions and just assume and continue to do something incorrectly. That's going to create a mesh you have to go back and fix.
Speaker 2:So I think those were excellent points. Now, going back to some of the things you've been working on with the AAPC you are in their VILT program, You're working as a teacher assistant, yeah, which is awesome, and they have so many of them and it's just wonderful resources that you guys are offering. So you've been a lot involved too, as well with the AAPC's curriculum and the CPC exam committee right Exam committee practicode.
Speaker 1:I also just joined the emerging leadership cohort. I can't keep track of everything, but yeah, that sounds about right. They just keep tapping you on the shoulder. You're like, yes, we got something, and I can't say no.
Speaker 2:One instance can you share about the evolution of coding standards and the importance of keeping those educational materials up to date?
Speaker 1:So I think that we are seeing a transition to solely e-books, and part of it, I think, is because eventually we're going to move to ICD-11. Right, and from what my understanding is, there are so many additional code changes, so many additional codes it's impossible to actually put in the actual physical book, right, right, it's going to be a database. Essentially it's going to be exactly a database. So, yeah, I think we're moving to e-books.
Speaker 1:I'm curious as to how we're going to keep it more up to date with the physical books. We now have IC10 updates twice a year, october and April, right? Um, so within a six month period, our books are going to be a little bit out of date. Yeah, you know we can't buy a book every six months, so I'm wondering if there might be a way to update the eBooks, like I'm like a patch. I mean, the game is coming out of me, but you know it's important for us to have those documents in our books to be up to date at all times. Now we're having these changes every six months. We're moving electronically, so I'm wondering if that might actually make it better for us to have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my aspiration for years has been to have a book, that I pay for it and I can do all my highlights and notes or whatever, and digitally, and then every year it just updates automatically and I pay the update fee, but it keeps my notes and highlights that I have in there, right, Right, I like that, but if it changes, yeah, then I have to do some weird crosswalks or something, but if it could keep like at least most of I know what did you have like?
Speaker 1:the first when I was studying for my CPC my first set of books. I finally just got rid of them. I kept them for ages. My first set of books. I highlighted, I tabbed, I notated and that's why I kept them, because I put so much time and effort into them and hours and everything. Yeah, I understand Doing that every year. It's like a craft project. It is. Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 2:Let me ask you this, though, about working on the exam stuff. So I've talked a little bit with like Ray in the past about how, when questions for the exams are being developed, they have people that develop these exam questions. They don't know if they're going on a practice exam, if they're going to be part of the test yourself questions on the book or if they're going on the actual exam. They just have this huge database of all these questions.
Speaker 2:I've been seeing more and more online people that are like oh, can? People asking like, oh, are these actual exam questions? No, I'm not going to share your actual exam questions, but there are, I've seen in little pockets, people that are like oh, yeah, I've written down all the questions that people told me they're on the exam and I'll sell them to you, and I'm like well, I'm imagining that, since everything's electronic and in a database, there are hundreds, if not at least a thousand, possible questions that could be on any of the exams, like the CPC. So why would you bother trying to memorize the exam questions where there's going to be like a one in 1,000, maybe even 2,000 chance that that question will be on there? I mean, wouldn't you say there's probably hundreds, if not at least 1,000, plus questions on the exam.
Speaker 1:Probably. I mean, it's an ongoing thing. You have groups in this committee who are creating sets of questions and the rationales and then we're going through, essentially, I guess, cycles. So you know, I think my first cycle was like three months, then my second cycle was three months, so it's a continuous thing where you're just building questions. But that is definitely how you get in trouble. Yeah, if you sit for the CPC exam, you are instructed you are not allowed to take any of that information, even if it's physical, not physical, but you're remembering it. I don't know how you remember all that, but then you're basically sharing exactly what's on the exam and it's not likely going to be the same questions, but there may be some that are the same. I would not purchase those. I would purchase your study guide from AAPC. Get it from the horse's mouth.
Speaker 2:It teaches you more. So the concepts that will be on the exam. Yeah, not memorizing the question, you don't do that. Understanding the concepts and as one thing to share with people. Oh, you know, on the exam sometimes they'll ask like a weirdo bee question, right, right, right. Like a concept thing, not a like a oh yeah, they're going to ask you this question.
Speaker 1:Right, right, exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:So, with your role working as a teacher's assistant and a subject matter expert, what are some of the common misconceptions or errors that you see in coding that you're trying to address through your education?
Speaker 1:I actually just had a presentation that I presented for my chapter so I could finish my. It was the last step in my instructor certification requirements and I presented on the conventions of the ICS-10. And a lot of things that I come across to my students is if they skip past the core information, the guidelines, the conventions, if they just skip past that and blow past it, they are going to be so lost. You're going to have, you're going to get questions incorrect, You're not understanding the basic concept. So I went over that with a chapter and just kind of deep diving in that.
Speaker 1:I think that it's very important for those coming in especially to put their focus on those guidelines and conventions. There's also in the IC10 book. There's a section for I think it's called like learning to use the book, or it has additional information and instructions Follow the instructions of your manual. You know, I mean, the biggest thing is you're being tested on how to navigate it, so you want to know the instructions of the book and then also not following the rationales when we get them to them.
Speaker 2:I think it's interesting too that ICD-10 and CPT have different guidelines for lookup and people sometimes miss that. It's like oh, with ICD-10, you have to start in the alphabetic index and whatever code it directs you to, that's the code that you have to use. You look around for the other notations to see if there's anything else. Yeah, but it's not like CPT where technically you can kind of just look around and search for the right code.
Speaker 1:Right, and there was one of our sessions yesterday. We were talking about compliance and CDI and EMRs and one of the speakers brought up a provider who had been EMRs. They are complicated, to keep it simple, they're complicated so you know they're there to help but sometimes they don't help. So there was a provider he was talking about who had seen a snippet of a title of a code and thought that was the whole code. So he was selecting oh, yeah, I realized that maybe there was additional. There's additional information Applications, or yeah, yeah, like with or without angina, things like that. Yeah, I realized that maybe there was additional. There's additional information applications. Or yeah, yeah, like with or without angina, things like that. Cad with and without angina. That was his um example. So I see that with my students too, where they will follow the index, get to the tabular and icd-10 and then they will select the top, the first one yeah you know they're not reading all the nuances and what's what keywords separate those codes together.
Speaker 1:So it's really important to pay attention, read the instructions of the book, pay attention, read through the code set. Make sure that you are selecting the code that is most accurate to the actual documentation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, lastly, as a lifelong learner and educator, an emerging leader for the AAPC, what are some of your future goals in medical coding and auditing and how are you working now to achieve them?
Speaker 1:So yeah, the emerging leadership. I am looking forward to stretching that muscle and, you know, networking and working with emerging leaders. I would like to become an industry leader, you know. So that's one of my goals. I also one of. I have a lot on the to-do list and the one at the top of the to-do list has been there for about a year but I've been swamped with all the extra projects is to get into presenting, and I've been doing it for my chapter, but I really need to start presenting for other chapters and I like to work my way up to Health Con.
Speaker 2:So I put it out there, I can't take it back now. Have you thought, since you're so active in your chapter, have you considered maybe joining the chapter association?
Speaker 1:down the line I have. Have you considered maybe joining the chapter association down the line I have? Yes, I'm just so busy. Yes, actually, so that was a goal of mine as soon as the first year that I served was to to join.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there's a lot of options out there. These days, it's it's. It's so lonely trying to figure out which like once. Once the APC taps you on the shoulder, it opens up a whole lot of different doors.
Speaker 1:It does, it really does. And another piece of advice for, you know, anyone who is trying to develop their career is to make sure that whatever projects you pick up, they complement your goals. Yes, so don't get sidetracked, and it's okay to say no to things that don't align with you.
Speaker 2:And some things that I've myself even been guilty of. You have to make sure that you're not overwhelming yourself because you don't want to over-promise and then under-deliver. Yeah, exactly, so where can my viewers connect with you if they want to find out more about Angelic?
Speaker 1:You can find me on LinkedIn. I think that's where I'm mostly at.
Speaker 2:All right, great. Well, thank you so much for Angelica for coming on for the channel today.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me Appreciate it. Bye, bye.